lucas magneto not sparking

The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. With the Lucas KN1, it is under the identification tag. slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. themselves. Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. I'll try the 3/16" gap test. Espaol What else could possibly be grounding this? If nobody is available, then you can make a test plug by removing the earth electrode from an old, but functional, sparking plug. information aggregated from many sources. If the coil has been in service since the magneto was new there is a good chance the insulation has started to break down, allowing voltage to track. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." Check the state of the points surfaces. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). It may not display this or other websites correctly. ring. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. books. If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. Or what else could be causing this? Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. Some original units are still in service today. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. If excessively worn, replace the heel (BTH), or the moving-point assembly (Lucas). If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. If you have a Megger or similar insulation tester, set it to test at 500V. Thanks mmcdonald, all good info. Translations provided by the Google Any suggestions? Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view old-style capacitor (the 'condensectomy') and Joined: Oct 2009. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. These were on older equipment which hadcomplete tune upsthat wentto the field and didn't work more than a hand full or two of times and then they would begin to start hard, no start or run for a short time and shut off then not restart. Undo the contact-breaker centre-screw and remove the contact-breaker assembly. have a small choice of reconditioned NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. A If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. Great photos, quality! load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. magnetos available for sale or in 0000013093 00000 n In the late 1890s, English engineer Frederick Richard Simms and German engineer Robert Bosch developed the first practical high-tension magneto. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. Voltage across the primary coil results in a proportional voltage being induced across the secondary winding of the coil. You can check the latter by removing the pick-up(s), rotating the armature in the proper direction until the points are just opening, and checking that the brass is visible directly underneath the pick-up hole (or one of the pick-up holes) in the magneto body. If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. The last of these possible reasons is very often the cause. 0000002567 00000 n 0000002409 00000 n With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. Measure the resistance with the two probes of your multi-meter shorted together. Dansk Having set the timing with the points opening on one cam lobe, you should check that it is also correct with the points opening on the other cam lobe. The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. Twin sparks provide two flame fronts within the cylinder, these two flame fronts decreasing the time needed for the fuel charge to burn. Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. 0000009971 00000 n Espaol Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. This induces an EMF in the coil, which in turn causes a current to flow. Because it requires no battery or other source of electrical energy, the magneto is a compact and reliable self-contained ignition system, which is why it remains in use in many general aviation applications. The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm. troubleshooting your magneto. The place to buy our EasyCap condensers I think it may be do to condensor failure. By Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. 0000002602 00000 n Put it on bike, timed, no spark. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. wish to make the required puller tool here. Trademark Office. quality are also available, of the correct Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently (Japanese) The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . Links to other service providers can be found Norsk If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. relating to our products, others more general Then measure the resistance between the two points of the contact-breaker. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. 0000004414 00000 n A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). All Lucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuff. Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. Nous Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . The use of ignition magnetos is now confined mainly to engines without a battery, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. To do this, measure the resistance between the magneto body and the end of the armature shaft. The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. However, dont make them lop-sided. If the brush is missing or there is only a very short piece in the pick-up, the brush (or part of it) may have come out and dropped to the bottom of the magneto housing. Such a system is known as an "energy transfer" ignition system. Initially this was done because it was easier to provide good insulation for the secondary winding of an external coil than it was in a coil buried in the construction of the magneto (early magnetos had the coil assembly externally to the rotating parts to make them easier to insulateat the expense of efficiency). Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. The turns ratio between the primary and secondary coil is selected so that the voltage across the secondary reaches a very high value, enough to arc across the gap of the spark plug. Our patented EasyCap is a simple Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. Pick-up brushes of the highest quality are also available, of the correct grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip ring. Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. All rewound units now have modern condensers and enameled wire. part-exchange. Links to some interesting Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. any service or repair work until further notice. Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. MochetVelo DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. found in all rotating-coil magnetos. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. This Lucas KVF magneto was rebuilt 7,000 miles ago and failed at around 3,000 miles with loss of spark on one cylinder. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % the brush spring is not touching the terminal in the pick-up holder; the connection between the cable and the pick-up is corroded; the screw in the plug cap has gone down the side of the HT cable and not down its centre; Slip-ring A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). classic owners. Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. She was factory fitted with a Morris Vedette MKII engine which has a lucas rf4 magneto. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. If everything were perfect and clean, the resistance should be infinite (OL). The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. Fit the magneto gear to the magneto shaft and finger tighten the nut ONLY until the gear is snug on the tapered shaft. The reading should be substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".[1]. 0000001015 00000 n Replace if necessary. If you have an auto-ranging meter, the reading might jump about a bit on the way while it changes scales. Some have both types of earth brush. One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. in the translations. at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). If the resistance is higher than about 15,000 ohms, it indicates a bad connection. Likes: 260. scotland. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. Brightspark Magnetos is now able to offer a remagnetising service, using our specially-developed remagnetising and measuring equipment to help you restore your magneto to tip-top condition. Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). It's easy! If there are any, replace the pick-up. March 21, 2020 in Technical. Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. or. rectifiers (and wiring diagrams) of use to all The ratio of turns in the secondary winding to the number of turns in the primary winding, is called the turns ratio. We also sell our Brightspark range of how they work; and to collate as much other Replace the cam, ensuring that the notches in it engage as before (e.g. With the mag on the engine, there is a spark at all 4 plugs . Therefore, taking the sparking plug(s) out of the engine, laying them on the cylinder head and checking whether the magneto will produce a spark at kickstart speeds is not a sufficient test. trailer degrade with age. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. pages on how to do that. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. And a f-ing video! To maintain a dedicated website that covers the English 82 23 grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag yourselves. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Posts: 34. Remove the cam, carefully noting which way round it goes and which notches in it engage where.

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